When are people going to realise?

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
He certainly seems well versed in the ways of the countryside.

I have absolutely no idea about farming (really, none at all). Yet, in a small part of my memory I remember Geography GCSE and the fact that farming land use isn't completely interchangeable. The examples were actually diary farming, sheep rearing and arable farming. I don't think you can stick a cow on the welsh hillside and expect it to be adapt.
Don't get me started writing essays about agriculture, land use and farming systems but basically yes you're right.
You can't just swap about livestock or crop types to supply the whims of a supposed future market.
Any kind of agriculture takes long term planning, specific infrastructure.. eg handling equipment for sheep is totally diffent to beef animals.

Skillsets knowledge etc etc.
Then chuck in soil type, markets, and many other factors.

We do as a nation and even as farmers need to adapt and enhance our food production systems in light of climate change, ecology, food security, economics and employment opportunities, but that's not as simple as swapping sheep for cows.

I haven't yet read the full transcript of what Eustice said, but he can often come across as not really getting the reaities of the situation.
 
The reality is the main effects most of us will see will be higher weekly food shops, with occasional delays waiting for things to be in stock... people will have got used to not being able to go on foreign holidays as easily and any long distance travel being a lot more expensive and complicated, with the added cost of hiked insurance for everything... all things we've been trained to accept in lockdown. People may well ask what all the fuss was about- things have stayed the same...

But, what we won't see will be: the delays, the red tape, the multiple form filling, admin costs using year on year, employment costs rising, firms having to comply with yet more employment issues, the need for separately-charged import/ export handling agents, VAT hassles, multiple handling and checking of UK goods and services at every border, massive insurance files and exclusions costing firms tens of thousands just to be able to trade, complications as supply chains fail and have to be replaced with more expensive, less trustworthy alternatives, failed farms, border delays and increased surveillance, failed bank transfers and increased bank handling and currency charges, medical delays due to staff shortages as EU specialists stay away from the UK as their families can't be with them... all the smooth operational advantages of free trade and movement we've enjoyed in business. After all the EU is the Common Market, set up to make business simpler, not a sword rattling, freedom-grabbing federalist state union... like the USA.
Yeah, but apart from that, it's gonna be great...
 
I've just skimmed this thread. It holds no surprises for me - the familiar narratives of division, conspiracy theories, patriotism, nationalism, etc all present.

I gently say to my friend numbnuts here, that it is a rare principle of business to smash everything you have in order to create a success - it's a very risky strategy to make yourself less competitive in order to be make yourself more successful - but we shall see.

I've been closer to the centre of the argument than I suspect many have here. To think that there can be just one reason that Boris et al are pursuing the course they are on may prove to be a little naive. There still remains one central truth missing. It's not mentioned here or anywhere else, but maybe here comes a truth for you. Make some tea, sit down, watch the clip I'm going to show you - no conspiracy theories required, just a truth with the potential to explain everything.

In a nutshell then, the Johnsons are a dynasty. The father worked for the EU and was not in favour of Brexit, the brother Joe was a minister but quit, his sister is outspoken against Boris's actions. However, there is a half-brother Maximillian. Max has an investment business based in Hong Kong. Max has been busy building a cabal of Chinese billionaire investers. The plan is to devalue the country in order to sell much of the infrastructure off to these investers when values hit rock bottom. If these plans are in place then we can not expect there to be a deal with the EU, the plan is reliant on failure. Behind closed doors, who is to know what plans are between Boris and Max, maybe nothing, maybe a little, maybe a lot; however the potential is that Boris is the biggest traitor in the history of the UK. The UK should never have let this man have access to power.


 

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
I've just skimmed this thread. It holds no surprises for me - the familiar narratives of division, conspiracy theories, patriotism, nationalism, etc all present.

I gently say to my friend numbnuts here, that it is a rare principle of business to smash everything you have in order to create a success - it's a very risky strategy to make yourself less competitive in order to be make yourself more successful - but we shall see.

I've been closer to the centre of the argument than I suspect many have here. To think that there can be just one reason that Boris et al are pursuing the course they are on may prove to be a little naive. There still remains one central truth missing. It's not mentioned here or anywhere else, but maybe here comes a truth for you. Make some tea, sit down, watch the clip I'm going to show you - no conspiracy theories required, just a truth with the potential to explain everything.

In a nutshell then, the Johnsons are a dynasty. The father worked for the EU and was not in favour of Brexit, the brother Joe was a minister but quit, his sister is outspoken against Boris's actions. However, there is a half-brother Maximillian. Max has an investment business based in Hong Kong. Max has been busy building a cabal of Chinese billionaire investers. The plan is to devalue the country in order to sell much of the infrastructure off to these investers when values hit rock bottom. If these plans are in place then we can not expect there to be a deal with the EU, the plan is reliant on failure. Behind closed doors, who is to know what plans are between Boris and Max, maybe nothing, maybe a little, maybe a lot; however the potential is that Boris is the biggest traitor in the history of the UK. The UK should never have let this man have access to power.


Well tbh it seems a very plausible theory. If it's not about avoiding more onerous EU tax scrutiny, or financial regulation.

Then your take seems highly likely.

I'm certainly not buying into the idea that Johnson is in the slightest bit interested in the upholding of democratic principals, or remotely concerned what the supposedly 'patriotic man in the street' cares about.

I'm still slogging on with my farmerish chums attempting a damage limitation exercise / redesign of agricultural support.

What comes of it, remains to be seen.

Still very sad for all the other things that will be lost though :sad:

But what can we do??
 

The Crofted Crest

Über Member
Monkers, truly nice to see you again but to suggest that Britain is about to be crashed and burned for the benefit of some unknown and unnamed Chinese hedgefunders, based on a 16 month-old video clip copied off the internet, is a central truth of Brexit and not a conspiracy theory is stretching it a bit.
 
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srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
Monkers, truly nice to see you again but to suggest that Britain is about to be crashed and burned for the benefit of some unknown Chinese hedgefunders, based on a 16 month-old video clip copied off the internet, is a central truth and not a conspiracy theory is stretching it a bit.
I'd go further. It's complete and utter nonsense.

" MJ Capital was founded in 2018. We invest in real estate, consumer and lifestyle businesses and also provide strategic advice to clients in the form of business development and business brokerage, acquisitions and disposals. "
https://www.maxjcapital.com/about-1/

"MJ Capital" appears to have a single employee, and does not admit to how much it invests. Johnson himself appears to be a small-time wheeler-dealer in Hong Kong - his proudest boast is that he's enabled 20-odd small deals.
 
I've just skimmed this thread. It holds no surprises for me - the familiar narratives of division, conspiracy theories, patriotism, nationalism, etc all present.

I gently say to my friend numbnuts here, that it is a rare principle of business to smash everything you have in order to create a success - it's a very risky strategy to make yourself less competitive in order to be make yourself more successful - but we shall see.

I've been closer to the centre of the argument than I suspect many have here. To think that there can be just one reason that Boris et al are pursuing the course they are on may prove to be a little naive. There still remains one central truth missing. It's not mentioned here or anywhere else, but maybe here comes a truth for you. Make some tea, sit down, watch the clip I'm going to show you - no conspiracy theories required, just a truth with the potential to explain everything.

In a nutshell then, the Johnsons are a dynasty. The father worked for the EU and was not in favour of Brexit, the brother Joe was a minister but quit, his sister is outspoken against Boris's actions. However, there is a half-brother Maximillian. Max has an investment business based in Hong Kong. Max has been busy building a cabal of Chinese billionaire investers. The plan is to devalue the country in order to sell much of the infrastructure off to these investers when values hit rock bottom. If these plans are in place then we can not expect there to be a deal with the EU, the plan is reliant on failure. Behind closed doors, who is to know what plans are between Boris and Max, maybe nothing, maybe a little, maybe a lot; however the potential is that Boris is the biggest traitor in the history of the UK. The UK should never have let this man have access to power.


I watched the video, without a cup of tea, and saw nothing that I would not have inspected from an investment company in this day and age. Mega rich people being told to watch out because there could be good pickings after Brexit.

What I couldn't see was evidence of a "cabal", just opportunists with money on the lookout for a cut-price bargain. Or evidence of a "plan" to devalue the country. Or anything to suggest, even by insinuation, any "plans" have been hatched between Boris and Max.

Your post is in itself a conspiracy theory, unless you give us something more tangible than this old video, which I assume you have based on your position as someone "closer to the centre of the argument" than most on here.

I must admit to being at a disadvantage here as I am not close to the centre of the argument, just someone who takes the Occam's razor approach and thinks that Brexit is a disaster, Boris is an arrogant, opportunist idiot, and realises that some people will make money out of the debacle, as they always do.
 
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Thanks for the replies, however ...

... this is one reason that I seldom feel the urge to post on political forums, because whatever is written, and however it is written - wrong end of stick is often firmly grasped, especially perhaps by those who are so keen to descredit a viewpoint contrary to their own.

I thought I'd made it clear that I think that taking the view that Brexit has any single cause is naive.

I thought I'd made clear that no one can know what conversations may have taken place between the brothers Johnson. I thought I'd made clear that Max was busy building a syndicate of Chinese billionaires to buy British infrastructure in the event of a price crash. I thought I'd made it clear that no opinion was being expressed at any level of collusions between the these two half-brothers. Lastly, I thought the dates of the video and the timing of the election showed that the 2019 election in December followed the earlier interview with Max where he had intentions saying that he has 'a plan' (his words).

I have no idea of the level of success of Max Johnson in implementing his plan. I do have some idea of the moral compass of Boris Johnson to date however. I am aware of the potential consequences when a man like Boris Johnson exposes any semblant of a moral compass close to a magnet.

My use of the word 'potential' in my piece was intended to convey that in the UK we have elected a PM with the potential to pass on inside knowledge to Chinese investers via a half-brother, and with the potential to act against the best interests of the UK. Why weren't the public aware of this potential conflict of interests? It is not in the public interest to be made aware of these potential conflicts of interest?
 
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So you were posting about 'a' truth, not the truth. You clearly dangled the wrong end of the stick hoping it would be grasped.

If Max Johnson's "plan" was to work with Chinese billionaires to make a profit from the chaos of Brexit then many other investment managers are guilty of the same crime. This is not a "cabal", just the unfortunate side of global capitalism.

You take the standard conspiracy theory approach of suggesting there could have been a plan hatched between Boris and Max without putting forward any evidence or source. You may as well have finished it with "just saying".
 
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So you were posting about 'a' truth, not the truth. You clearly dangled the wrong end of the stick hoping it would be grasped.

If Max Johnson's "plan" was to work with Chinese billionaires to make a profit from the chaos of Brexit then many other investment managers are guilty of the same crime. This is not a "cabal", just the unfortunate side of global capitalism.

You take the standard conspiracy theory approach of suggesting there could have been a plan hatched between Boris and Max without putting forward any evidence or source. You may as well have finished it with "just saying".
I recognise self-justification for poor comprehension when I see it. Good evening.
 

The Crofted Crest

Über Member
Thanks for the replies, however ...

... this is one reason that I seldom feel the urge to post on political forums, because whatever is written, and however it is written - wrong end of stick is often firmly grasped, especially perhaps by those who are so keen to descredit a viewpoint contrary to their own.

I thought I'd made it clear that I think that taking the view that Brexit has any single cause is naive.

I thought I'd made clear that no one can know what conversations may have taken place between the brothers Johnson. I thought I'd made clear that Max was busy building a syndicate of Chinese billionaires to buy British infrastructure in the event of a price crash. I thought I'd made it clear that no opinion was being expressed at any level of collusions between the these two half-brothers. Lastly, I thought the dates of the video and the timing of the election showed that the 2019 election in December followed the earlier interview with Max where he had intentions saying that he has 'a plan' (his words).

I have no idea of the level of success of Max Johnson in implementing his plan. I do have some idea of the moral compass of Boris Johnson to date however. I am aware of the potential consequences when a man like Boris Johnson exposes any semblant of a moral compass close to a magnet.

My use of the word 'potential' in my piece was intended to convey that in the UK we have elected a PM with the potential to pass on inside knowledge to Chinese investers via a half-brother, and with the potential to act against the best interests of the UK. Why weren't the public aware of this potential conflict of interests? It is not in the public interest to be made aware of these potential conflicts of interest?
Pathetic. Genuinely pathetic.
 
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