The Brexit Thread

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Spinney

Spinney

Bimbleur extraordinaire
Location
Under the Edge
- the remaining "opposition" parties are simply a sideshow, none of them have any credible solution(s).
In some respects, whether or not they have solutions is irrelevant, as they only way any of them can hope to have any power is as part of a coalition.
 

green1

Über Member
As I see it, Mrs May is not leader because she is the best candidate, she is leader, and (almost) in power because no-one else wants it.
I see it as she's leader because she's not Boris Johnson, he was clearly waiting to be anoited.
 
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I see it as she's leader because she's not Boris Johnson, he was clearly waiting to be anoited.
Johnson carefully and cynically picked the side in the Brexit fight that would put him in the best position to become leader. When the time came, he and Michael Gove Machiavelli'd each other so hard that neither of them could get the votes required to run, so neither ended up putting their names forward. That left May and Andrea "who?" Leadsom. Leadsom then said something so monstrously stupid that May ended up running unapposed.

Which is how we ended up being lead by not one but two unelected women married to men named Phillip.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
But whether you are a Leaver or Remainer, is anyone happy with the standard of the UK's negotating team?
It's interesting to me that the deadline set on phase 1 by the EU expired and went on several days after that, till it was supposedly resolved*. It gives me hope that down the line on transition deals there might be some movement on the EU side to avoid catastrophic cliff edge scenarios and perhaps some semblance of organisation on the UK side to get stuff in order. Ah yes you might say but things have moved on. All I see it is as the two sides (and there are some hot tempers and ill suited personalities on both sides) have managed to agree they will talk. So that's progress, but all the work is yet to do. When the going is tough later on, both sides may pull back from the cliff edge.

That doesn't suggest a high standard of the UK negotiating team, there are a number of other factors such as the complete collapse of the British government being a factor on the EU's side, it does however show the macho stuff on the EU side was a tiny bit less literally true than said.

*In the real world not much would be made of it coming and going and in the papers they made very little of the EU letting the deadline go on days after. On the other hand the papers didn't really pick up on that even with phase 1 supposedly done, the trade talks can't start till at least February which was exactly the same bugled message coming out of the EU as if no deal had been done (which sounds ridiculous). I suppose it's whether you put much stock into whether any progress would/will be made in 2 months of transition arrangements.

A sign of a good negotiation by the UK government would have been getting agreements for Gibraltar. Or more rights for people. It's people that matter not a billion here or there.

After things were supposedly agreed, the other thing I found interesting was the headlines about Ireland and Northern Ireland. There were some misleading tv headlines and in papers (that were padded out and explained properly) about the status of people in Northern Ireland. There is a bilateral agreement between the UK and ROI about people being born in Northern Ireland can apply and claim Republic of Ireland citizenship and therefore keep their 'EU citizenship'. This is nothing new. What I found interesting was the way it was portrayed in the media over here, it could have been incredibly damaging to the UK cohesion if people in Scotland thought NI was getting special rights they weren't, or even people in Wales or England i.e. those born in NI were automatically 'EU citizens' (this isn't the case at all, but it's how it looked unless you read more). The same with the vague stuff to do with access to the single market. That said the whole idea of citizenship does look utterly ridiculous when viewed through this lens, say if hundreds of thousands of Northern Irish claimed EU citizenship through ROI just as it is for other countries such as the allegations made in the past about Romania offering Moldovan passports. It's going to be horribly messy for families, partners split by the citizenship lottery.
 

BoldonLad

Über Member
Location
South Tyneside
Greenland. Joined 1973, left 1985.

The reason we're in uncharted waters is this is the first withdrawal under article 50, not that it's the first at all.
I stand corrected, hair duly split.

Are you by chance my Son-in-law, masquerading as a fellow cyclist ;)

Just in case there is any doubt, I am joking.

From Wikipedia: "On 23 February 1982, a bare majority (53%) of Greenland's population voted to leave the EEC, a process which lasted until 1985."

I see their vote was just about as marginal as ours, and it took them three years to exit.
 
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screenman

Legendary Member
If we end up like Greenland it could be a bit frostie.
 

captain nemo1701

Space cadet. Deck 42 Main Engineering.
Location
Bristol
David Davis is an incompetent, lazy, farkwit, liar. Simples!

I know people who work/have worked in DExEU and they say he is one of the laziest, most incompetent ministers they've ever worked with. This is one reason I've not been tempted to join DExEU.
That photo of the EU negotiators with all their paperwork on one side of the table and DD on the other grinning like a Cheshire cat on LSD and looking like a schoolboy who's in detention. Gawd, we're fooked:ohmy:
 

Inertia

I feel like I could... TAKE ON THE WORLD!!
Well at least parliament will get a vote on the deal

MPs vote 309 to 305 to defeat the government and pass the amendment in the name of Dominic Grieve, which would require the final deal with the EU to be approved by statute passed by Parliament.

The amendment will become part of the bill, and MPs move to another vote.
 
OP
Spinney

Spinney

Bimbleur extraordinaire
Location
Under the Edge
Well at least parliament will get a vote on the deal
What happens if the deal is not approved, though? Does that mean that we still leave but with 'no deal'? Or does it mean we stay in. Somehow I doubt the latter. If the former, I'm not really sure what we've gained (other than a government defeat which, IMO, is a good thing).

Edit - just read somewhere that if the deal is rejected, it is back to negotiating. No idea how that fits with a specified leave date, though.

This is good news of course, but interesting too that Dodgy David Davis's letter to Tory MPs failed to convince anyone. You might almost think he is seen as a duplicitous toad whose promises are worth nothing.
Surely not! :laugh:
 
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