Sub 2 hour marathon.

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
Paula Radcliffe taking advantage of male pacers to set a female record? Cheating or not? And the Bob Graham Round only accepts records if they are set with pacers, who are almost invariably rotated between sections, so a completely different philosophy.
Paula Radcliffe ran the fastest marathon ever by a woman running in competition with other runners in the 2003 London race. Cheating? Wash your mouth out. Who's cheating who?
In the Bob Graham (have you completed it @swansonj ?) those who run alongside are there to assure that each and every summit is visited - they act as 'witnesses' - a criterion the Bob Graham Club require to record the completion (not a 'record'). In my experience there was minimal pacing advantage from those running with us - the benefit was the company. But I'm sure others would appreciate the navigational aid and water/food carrying that company might offer. And there is a safety aspect too, if fell-runners are on the limit of their endurance. Over a 20+ hours endeavour it's the individual who sets their pace, not those acompanying.
My take on the Vienna extravaganza is that it is what it is: a time trial over the marathon distance. I fear that when a runner breaks 2 hours properly (ie in a race) their achievement will be depreciated because of today's media scrum/hyped effort. Think how the world would have received Roger Bannister's 'breakthrough' if some bloke had broken 4 minutes a month or a year earlier, in a time trial with pacemakers jumping in and out.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
100 years ago it was closer to 3 hours.
Strictly true "closer to 3 hours [than 2]", but actually 2:32!
 

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Poshshire
Absolitely astonishing. When I used to run my trainer reckoned I'd be good for a 4 minute mile if i'd wanted to - I never did, and never wore the coveted Sub-4 T shirt - but this is astonishing. Give it time, as now we know it can be done someone will soon do it again bit under racing conditions.
 

Milkfloat

An Peanut
Location
Midlands
Paula Radcliffe ran the fastest marathon ever by a woman running in competition with other runners in the 2003 London race. Cheating? Wash your mouth out. Who's cheating who?
I don’t see much difference between this attempt and Paula’s. They both ran with dedicated pacers running to an exact time. The only real difference I see is the hydration/feeding.

P.S. No drugs scandal yet, unlike Paula.
 

swansonj

Guru
Paula Radcliffe ran the fastest marathon ever by a woman running in competition with other runners in the 2003 London race. Cheating? Wash your mouth out. Who's cheating who?
In the Bob Graham (have you completed it @swansonj ?) those who run alongside are there to assure that each and every summit is visited - they act as 'witnesses' - a criterion the Bob Graham Club require to record the completion (not a 'record'). In my experience there was minimal pacing advantage from those running with us - the benefit was the company. But I'm sure others would appreciate the navigational aid and water/food carrying that company might offer. And there is a safety aspect too, if fell-runners are on the limit of their endurance. Over a 20+ hours endeavour it's the individual who sets their pace, not those acompanying.
My take on the Vienna extravaganza is that it is what it is: a time trial over the marathon distance. I fear that when a runner breaks 2 hours properly (ie in a race) their achievement will be depreciated because of today's media scrum/hyped effort. Think how the world would have received Roger Bannister's 'breakthrough' if some bloke had broken 4 minutes a month or a year earlier, in a time trial with pacemakers jumping in and out.
I think you're misunderstanding what I was trying and clearly failing to convey :blush:. My point is that none of these achievements - Roger Bannister, Paula Radcliffe, Eliud Kipchoge - are cheating, because any set of rules that specifies what a pacer can or cannot do is arbitrary. It's not me that's called either Radcliffe's or Kipchoge's stupendous achievements "cheating", though others (not necessarily on here) have done so about both. Personally, I wouldn't have used your phraseology "when a runner breaks 2 hours properly (ie in a race)" because that implies there is something improper about his breaking two hours today.
 

Phaeton

Grumpy Old Barstool
Location
Oop North (ish)
Well I think it is cheating, he should have been made to run back the other way & take an average of the two, just like any land speed record :boxing:
 
Location
Kent Coast
Sorry, but it doesn't impress me, until it's done in an actual race, with no laser pointing out "ideal" pace.
Of course, there could be pacemakers employed in an actual race, but it's not the artificial event that has been created here.
 

swansonj

Guru
Sorry, but it doesn't impress me, until it's done in an actual race, with no laser pointing out "ideal" pace.
Of course, there could be pacemakers employed in an actual race, but it's not the artificial event that has been created here.
So what do you think about the cycling hour record?
 

Starchivore

I don't know much about Cinco de Mayo
I don’t see much difference between this attempt and Paula’s. They both ran with dedicated pacers running to an exact time. The only real difference I see is the hydration/feeding.

P.S. No drugs scandal yet, unlike Paula.
No, I think this is very different to Paula's record.

Paula's was in an actual race, and the only reason she got any issues was because men were competing at the same time. For Kipchoge, everything was perfect;y set up for him- he had a number of pacers swapping in and out, especially for him, and they were also clustered round the reduce wind resistance to the absolute minimum- the car also helped with this and provided a laser showing how to stay in that formation. Plus the hydration and feeding differences.
 

winjim

✊🏻✊🏾 🌈 😷
Sorry, but it doesn't impress me, until it's done in an actual race, with no laser pointing out "ideal" pace.
Of course, there could be pacemakers employed in an actual race, but it's not the artificial event that has been created here.
This sort of approach is used in actual cycling races though. Knowing the rider's position and time, the team can tell them exactly what reading they should be aiming for on their power meter in order to make the cut. Same principle as having a laser on the road.
 
Top Bottom