I think Trump deserves his own thread ....

MntnMan62

Über Member
Location
Northern NJ
Jail is for poor people - Trump won't be going to jail and won't be poor, despite owing lots of money.
There is the very real possibiity that he's met his match. That he's taken his outrageous behavior to a level that he cannot save himself from. Let's face it. Looking at his performance over the past 3 3/4 years he has only been successful at one thing. Being popular. The support of his Repubican colleagues in the Senate has not been due to his level of performance but his level of popularity among Republicans. Performance wise, the stock market has not performed as strongly as it did under Obama. The annual increase on a percentage basis over their respective terms was far better under Obama. GDP has simply continued to remain at the same level under Obama. The cost of living has actually gone up in this country. Trump has started a trade war with China and there are literally no discussions taking place to resolve it. Fail. That has resulted in the price of both Chinese goods and American made goods to go up. His tax plan has increased taxes for many middle class taxpayers in the country's most populous states due to his $10,000 cap on mortgage interest and real estate tax deductions and eliminating the state tax deduction from the federal return. Fail. He has piled on tons of debt at record rates long before Covid was even a thing. Big Fail. And he's turned all of our allies against us. Foreign policy fail. He's rolled back environmental protections which puts our water supply and environment at risk and lowering our overall quality of life. Major fail. But his shenanigans with the election have crossed the line into the realm of inciting violence. That is a crime in this country. It reallly all depends on whether Biden has the balls to allow the DOJ to establish a case and go after him and to take it to the Federal Court system. Time will tell. The reality is his real estate empire is a shambles. He doesn't have the wealth he used to. He may never have had what he's tried to convince us he has. And he was never a very good real estate developer. He is known for overpaying for properties and stiffing his contractors. Banks in the US have refused to work with him for decades. I know because I used to work for one of them. Now he's probably chased away even the foreign banks like Deutsch Bank that were willing to work with him. He's in a fair amount of trouble. Time will tell if it all ends up taking him down.
 

Andy_R

Hard of hearing..I said Herd of Herring..oh FFS..
Location
County Durham
Given that there are so many nut-jobs with guns on both sides, in addition to the 'normal' people who have guns, there could be a lot of unnecessary deaths.

What is the definition of treason in the US that Trump could be charged under? Is doing untold harm to the country and its reputation by his behaviour as the democratically elected President covered under the US treason laws?

I don't like forecasting anything in politics, especially in this chaotic time, but I will forecast that Trump will not be tried for treason, nor will he spend one day in jail for his financial crimes and tax lies, and certainly not for colluding with Putin.
I think, but don't quote me on this, that he would be guilty of sedition - "conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch. "
 
I think, but don't quote me on this, that he would be guilty of sedition - "conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch. "
Would that apply while he is still the 'authority of the state' for another couple of months? Can he incite people to rebel against himself? All bets would be off however, when Biden is inaugurated, if Trump continues with his madness.
 

Andy_R

Hard of hearing..I said Herd of Herring..oh FFS..
Location
County Durham
Would that apply while he is still the 'authority of the state' for another couple of months? Can he incite people to rebel against himself? All bets would be off however, when Biden is inaugurated, if Trump continues with his madness.
Isn't the senate the "authority of the state"?
 

MntnMan62

Über Member
Location
Northern NJ
Would that apply while he is still the 'authority of the state' for another couple of months? Can he incite people to rebel against himself? All bets would be off however, when Biden is inaugurated, if Trump continues with his madness.
Well, if Biden is the legitimate President Elect, then even though Trump is still technically President until January 20, inciting people to rise up against the President Elect is not inciting people to rebel against himself but against the succeeding legitimate government. I think the sedition charge is justified in this case even though he's still technically in office. He's inciting the people to interfere with the peaceful transition of the government of the state.
 

MntnMan62

Über Member
Location
Northern NJ
This an unprecedented situation, I should imagine, so I can just imagine the legal arguments going on forever.

It is a moot point however because he will not be charged with treason or sedition, or any other crime/misdemeanor leading to a prison sentence.
We don't know that. Since this is an unprecedented situation as you correctly point out, we don't know what will and won't happen to him in terms of charges brought. If he concedes now, I would imagine he won't be charged. But if he doesn't concede and his rhetoric becomes even more incendiary, I think you will see a much higher likelihood that he could be charged.
 

Milkfloat

An Peanut
Location
Midlands
Trump won’t face any serious charges, the US ‘system’ won’t want the shame.
 
We don't know that. Since this is an unprecedented situation as you correctly point out, we don't know what will and won't happen to him in terms of charges brought. If he concedes now, I would imagine he won't be charged. But if he doesn't concede and his rhetoric becomes even more incendiary, I think you will see a much higher likelihood that he could be charged.
As a US citizen you are closer to the action, and definitely more knowledgeable on the subject, than I am so I am not going to argue with you.
 
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter115&edition=prelim#:~:text=Whoever, owing allegiance to the,not less than $10,000; and

The rule of law has its advantages - notably that it's quite easy to find the law. If Trump and chums continue to do what they're doing at the moment after Biden's inauguration it wouldn't be all that difficult to find a section of that law to charge them with.
Agreed. As I said earlier he will push his luck with a lot of his crap for the next couple of months, and then will change tack with Biden as President.

He can cause a lot of long-lasting damage in that period however, but in his mind this is not about the US at all, it is just about Trump. It always has been but too many people are too stupid to see it.
 
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