Greta Thunberg. Saviour of the planet, or what?

dutchguylivingintheuk

Well-Known Member
Back in 1995 there was a ''Greta''(with a other name) too btw same ammo same message many years later the earth is still standing strong, what makes you think this ''Greta'' is more on point than the other?
 

raleighnut

Guru
Location
On 3 Wheels
Earthquakes, huricanes, tornado's, tsunami's, Vulcano eruptions, over the past course of many thousand of years the nature/earth knows how to do a cleanup and no matter what we have invented nothing has come close to the power the nature/earth can show is has. And now we all have to save the earth, because all that co2 is going to kill us. While i agree on reduction/nullifing the use of fossil fuels, I don't agree with the stupid thing being done to supposedly save the planet.. First off if you want to stop using fosil fuels why are we investing in battery cars? An technology which was brought to a virtually standstill until Tesla picked it up, but more importantly it is swapping one fossil fuel for a other. And there is an alternative called fuel cell, which means you go to a petrol station fuel up liquid hydrogen and a chemical reaction creates electricity. The are driving with in some parts of America.
Yep a human 'extinction' event should allow the planet to recover nicely from the damage we've done.
 

dutchguylivingintheuk

Well-Known Member
Cobalt is not a fossil fuel
it dug up out of a mine by little children that should have been in school or be getting education. Lots of them die in that progress, on top of that it's extremely damaging for the environment but hey if everyone joins maybe the co2 footprint goes down by 0.003% gotta be worth something for all those mothers who lost a child is'nt it?
 

dutchguylivingintheuk

Well-Known Member
Cobalt is not a fossil fuel.
have it your way:
  • Electric cars rely on electricity, which is mainly generated by fossil energy or nuclear power that can also generate pollution.
  • Heavy reliance of rare-earth elements such as neodymium, lanthanum, terbium, and dysprosium, and other critical metals such as lithium and cobalt,[11][12] though the quantity of rare metals used differs per car. Though Rare Earth metals are plentiful in the Earth's crust, few miners hold exclusivity to access those elements.[13]
  • Possible increased particulate matter emissions from tires. This is sometimes caused by the fact that most electric cars have a heavy battery, which means the car's tires are subjected to more wear. The brake pads, however, can be used less frequently than in non-electric cars, if regenerative braking is available and may thus sometimes produce less particulate pollution than brakes in non-electric cars[14][1] Also, some electric cars may have a combination of drum brakes and disc brakes, and drum brakes are known to cause less particulate emissions than disc brakes.
  • As in combustion cars, the carbon dioxide emitted for the manufacturing should be taken into account.
  • The Carbon dioxide emitted for the manufacturing and production of oil must be a part of the total tailpipes calculations of carbon dioxide emitted for ICEVs cars
(source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_aspects_of_the_electric_car )

So unless where gonna solarize the desert, put long cables to get that electicity to here electric cars still use a lot of fossil fuels allong with destroying the climate on other places. what a great progress!
 

roubaixtuesday

Über Member
have it your way:
  • Electric cars rely on electricity, which is mainly generated by fossil energy or nuclear power that can also generate pollution.
  • Heavy reliance of rare-earth elements such as neodymium, lanthanum, terbium, and dysprosium, and other critical metals such as lithium and cobalt,[11][12] though the quantity of rare metals used differs per car. Though Rare Earth metals are plentiful in the Earth's crust, few miners hold exclusivity to access those elements.[13]
  • Possible increased particulate matter emissions from tires. This is sometimes caused by the fact that most electric cars have a heavy battery, which means the car's tires are subjected to more wear. The brake pads, however, can be used less frequently than in non-electric cars, if regenerative braking is available and may thus sometimes produce less particulate pollution than brakes in non-electric cars[14][1] Also, some electric cars may have a combination of drum brakes and disc brakes, and drum brakes are known to cause less particulate emissions than disc brakes.
  • As in combustion cars, the carbon dioxide emitted for the manufacturing should be taken into account.
  • The Carbon dioxide emitted for the manufacturing and production of oil must be a part of the total tailpipes calculations of carbon dioxide emitted for ICEVs cars
(source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_aspects_of_the_electric_car )

So unless where gonna solarize the desert, put long cables to get that electicity to here electric cars still use a lot of fossil fuels allong with destroying the climate on other places. what a great progress!
Thanks for the cut and paste.

Cobalt remains not a fossil fuel.
 

dutchguylivingintheuk

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the cut and paste.

Cobalt remains not a fossil fuel.
Yes ok i was wrong on that one it is technically not a fosil fuel, it does however does not change my point that electric battery operated cars do swap a fosil fuel for a other material that is in part or completely mined or harvested from the earths crust/layers/etc. and causes a lot of pollution in the progress and in this case also child labour.
 

roubaixtuesday

Über Member
Yes ok i was wrong on that one it is technically not a fosil fuel, it does however does not change my point that electric battery operated cars do swap a fosil fuel for a other material that is in part or completely mined or harvested from the earths crust/layers/etc. and causes a lot of pollution in the progress and in this case also child labour.
I agree that there are significant environmental impacts of electric vehicles.

Bicycles are a much better alternative, naturally.
 

dutchguylivingintheuk

Well-Known Member
I agree that there are significant environmental impacts of electric vehicles.

Bicycles are a much better alternative, naturally.
Sure but they are not able to replace all cars, fuel cell would in my view be a better technology. it is both possible for combustion engines and electric engines, the main disadvantage in comparison to battery powered vehicles is that they do have the same efficiency but still much better than petrol.
 

roubaixtuesday

Über Member
Sure but they are not able to replace all cars, fuel cell would in my view be a better technology. it is both possible for combustion engines and electric engines, the main disadvantage in comparison to battery powered vehicles is that they do have the same efficiency but still much better than petrol.
Fuel cells are massively less efficient than battery vehicles, taking into account the production of hydrogen by electrolysis and subsequent conversion back to electricity. They also require entirely new infrastructure, and rare earth catalysts btw.

It's very hard to predict which will prevail, but currently it's quite hard to see a future for fuel cells IMV. Time will tell.
 

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
Yes ok i was wrong on that one it is technically not a fosil fuel, it does however does not change my point that electric battery operated cars do swap a fosil fuel for a other material that is in part or completely mined or harvested from the earths crust/layers/etc. and causes a lot of pollution in the progress and in this case also child labour.
Firstly, the environmental benefit of BEVs will improve as power generation moves more towards renewables. The resources obtained by mining will remain an issue, but that's true of any type of large vehicle. I'm sure that will be improved in the future.

Secondly, the benefit to local air pollution is immense - 30,000 premature deaths are caused by this, most of it due to vehicle emissions.

As @roubaixtuesday said above, fuel cells are unlikely to prevail. Nearly all mahor manufacturers have stopped research on fuel cells and are concentrating on electric.
 
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