Doms Decline ?

Archie_tect

De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
Location
Northumberland
Joey, that map is a perfect illustration of the points you make... it's startling and horrifying how small-minded people were and how small the tipping point is. Proud that Tynedale and Hexham voted to Remain and demonstrates how Tynedale and Hexham is so often more in tune with Scotland rather than England! How the English can expect to avoid the break up of the Union after 31st December amazes me, though the same Englander xenophobes believe England can go it alone stronger and fitter without the Union.

Divided we fall, whether it's the Union or the EU... division breeds contempt which breeds conflict.
 
Being ignorant of the facts, or being contrary voting deliberately as a protest [for other reasons] is a worse excuse than voting on principle- I don't hate the people who voted Leave, I just don't respect them.
The vote was lost. Probably because of lies, but at the end of the day it was still lost because those politicians in charge of the Remain campaign didn't make a good enough job of countering those lies.

Every election ever held in this country has involved a lot of people who are ignorant of the facts and believe the superficiality of the campaign teams. That's democracy, with all its shortcomings, as we are seeing in the US, but it is better than the alternative.

Voting on principle is not an excuse, it is a reason. We may not agree with those reasons, but that is irrelevant now. As for respect, that is also irrelevant in the bigger picture and I doubt whether any leavers will lose any sleep over it.
 

Archie_tect

De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
Location
Northumberland
I agree Rusty, we have to live with leaving and we are where we are... I think Joey's point that a far, far greater percentage of the English would have voted to leave the EU regardless of any arguments put forward. That makes me sad for, and contemptuous of, a little Englander... it's a work-in-progress.

What they reap so shall they sow- unfortunate that they drag us along with them tarred with the same brush.
 
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Adam4868

Guru
To be fair non or very few of the people I know who voted leave regret that decision.Im guessing similar with those that voted for the Tories/Johnson.
I think the press/social media had a lot to do with disinformation and the lies told.They willingly gave a platform to the lies of vote leave.Promising a brighter future for deprived communities.Even now the pantomime of Cummings whilst the death toll of the virus continues.The siphoning of funds to their chums accounts.
Blue passport anyone ?
 
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Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Poshshire
I think the press/social media had a lot to do with disinformation and the lies told.
Of the 19 predictions made by George Osbourne, only two came to pass.

Both sides were talking crass bullpois of the highest order and the media were only too happy to let them both do it because lurid copy makes for a bigger audience and more sales.

If the remain camp had been more honest and open and less keen to try and frighten us all with tales of doom and disaster then we wouldn't be in the mess we are today, because the leave supporters wouldn't have a Project Fear as a rallying point to unite against.

The remain campaign didn't just let it happen - they actually made it happen.

Thanks guys. Not.
 
Secondly, there are honourable reasons to vote for Brexit, because there are genuine problems with the EU. I remember having a very long and passionate argument on here with someone, but we ended on good terms because I could see the point he was making, even if I didn't agree these problems are sufficient to want to throw it all away. I'm uncomfortable blaming people because they disagree with me, even if their decisions lead to negative consequences they were specifically told wouldn't happen.
I seriously considered voting Leave, but not because I wanted the UK out of the EU - I didn't and I still don't - nor because I believed any cr*p painted on the side of a bus.

My reasoning was that a landslide vote for Remain (haha) would send the signal to the EU that they could continue the path towards federalism and marginalising countries that didn't want to be part of the United States of Europe. A narrow majority for Remain, on the other hand, might have prompted Brussels and Strasbourg to remember that the EU is about all 28 countries.

In the end, I decided that the margin in favour of Remain might not be that big after all(!) so I made the sensible choice - for all the difference it made, in the end.
 

Archie_tect

De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
Location
Northumberland
I wouldn't recommend a career as a professional gambler for you...
Don't tell us you've been one of those as well?
 
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matticus

Über Member
To be fair non or very few of the people I know who voted leave regret that decision.Im guessing similar with those that voted for the Tories/Johnson.
I think the press/social media had a lot to do with disinformation and the lies told.They willingly gave a platform to the lies of vote leave.Promising a brighter future for deprived communities
Agree.
And the press loved giving platforms to the "characters" like Farage. They knew he'd generate debate, clicks, viewing figures. "Moderates on our show? Pfft, booooring!"
 

Archie_tect

De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
Location
Northumberland
Of the 19 predictions made by George Osbourne, only two came to pass.

Both sides were talking crass bullpois of the highest order and the media were only too happy to let them both do it because lurid copy makes for a bigger audience and more sales.

If the remain camp had been more honest and open and less keen to try and frighten us all with tales of doom and disaster then we wouldn't be in the mess we are today, because the leave supporters wouldn't have a Project Fear as a rallying point to unite against.

The remain campaign didn't just let it happen - they actually made it happen.

Thanks guys. Not.
It's all the fault of the people who wanted to remain in the EU.. of course... how could we have been so stupid.
 

Archie_tect

De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
Location
Northumberland
David Attenborough, Michale Rosen, Barrack Obama, every previous PM, Brian Cox, Caroline Lucas, Angela Merkel... hundreds of people all expressed opinions that leaving would be a bad decision and gave reasons... if people in England wanted to leave regardless everyone was wasting wasting their breath... no wonder Gove and Johnson were picked up by Cummings and steered to ride the populist crest of the wave.
 
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