China - what’s to be done?

70% of the UK is living in a dictatorship it didn't vote for....
What is your definition of a dictatorship?

At least it had the opportunity to make that choice. More people voting could have altered that, and could again in four years time.
 

byegad

Legendary Member
Location
NE England
This is power politics.
The UK have a seat at the table in that our nuclear weapons puts us there, but don't think it gives us much more than a seat.
Countries act like school bullies, always have, see much of our imperial past. The big ones can do what they like, so long as the other big ones don't interfere. The ultimate 'interference' is of course war.
Here we have politicians who would like to behave as the UK did 150 years ago. Some of them believe they can, as do a goodly proportion of the electorate, but in reality we lack the military means to back this up, short of launching nuclear missiles, which, against the big boys, would provoke a massive nuclear response, which will make his last year look idyllic.
We also lack the allies to back us up. While the USA helped with munitions and other supplies when Argentina invaded the Falklands, a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then and if we launched a military adventure without US support we'd be brought to heel by them pretty damn quickly. Think it won't be so? Read about our invasion of the Suez canal area. We had France and Israel as allies, but the US didn't approve, and we withdrew.
 

Joey Shabadoo

My pronouns are "He", "Him" and "buggerlugs"
This is power politics.
The UK have a seat at the table in that our nuclear weapons puts us there, but don't think it gives us much more than a seat.
Countries act like school bullies, always have, see much of our imperial past. The big ones can do what they like, so long as the other big ones don't interfere. The ultimate 'interference' is of course war.
Here we have politicians who would like to behave as the UK did 150 years ago. Some of them believe they can, as do a goodly proportion of the electorate, but in reality we lack the military means to back this up, short of launching nuclear missiles, which, against the big boys, would provoke a massive nuclear response, which will make his last year look idyllic.
We also lack the allies to back us up. While the USA helped with munitions and other supplies when Argentina invaded the Falklands, a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then and if we launched a military adventure without US support we'd be brought to heel by them pretty damn quickly. Think it won't be so? Read about our invasion of the Suez canal area. We had France and Israel as allies, but the US didn't approve, and we withdrew.
Interestingly, Joe Biden was very supportive of the UK during the Falklands War.

The US didn't approve of military intervention in Libya, but the UK (led by the French) went ahead anyway.

The reality is allies support each other according to treaties or self-interest. The US stopped Israel, France and the UK during Suez because they saw it in their interests to rein back France and the UK in the Middle East in order to allow the US to be the main player. How's that worked out for them?

The idea that Britain would act unilaterally against the interests of allies is ridiculous and a straw man argument.

WRT China, we will act as part of a multinational effort which is looking like the US, UK, Australia and various Pacific Rim countries. There are plans to base one of our carriers - HMS Queen Elizabeth - in the Far East to counter Chinese expansionism. Russia is also building up troops in the area - ostensibly as a reaction to the West but some observers think Putin is warning China.
 

RecordAceFromNew

Swinging Member
Location
West London
I'll take a guess... maybe that "nearly 100%" figure may be due to the effectively one party system controlling the message, police and judiciary?

That link to the survey is interesting, which states " The work began in 2003, and together with a leading private research and polling company in China". I wonder why they don't mention which company in China it was? Was it a Chinese company? Were any of the responses vetted by the Chinese government before being released? Were any of the respondents under pressure to answer the questions without criticizing the government? What about fear of retribution? How were the respondents chosen? What was the wording of the survey? How were the responses measured? Given the Chinese government's history of restricting information and recent machinations in Hong Kong, it's surprizing all these questions weren't addressed in the article given the context.

Of course, that's not to say that survey isn't accurate, but I think there's reason enough to doubt that figure and hence my guess (which I freely acknowledge may not be correct).
You have been soaking up far too much propaganda in the West. But as I indicated above, it is hardly your fault.

Your suspicion ignores the simple and plain facts of how the life of the vast majority of people in China has improved substantially over the past 40 years, that chaos is not only a relatively recent phenomenon but has burned into people's mind for centuries, and how scenes in HongKong like below put off a very proud people/nation BIGLY:

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Joey Shabadoo

My pronouns are "He", "Him" and "buggerlugs"
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Thousands murdered by the state 30 years ago.
 

Eziemnaik

Über Member
RE freedom or lack of thereof in China - it is an obvious truism but the word freedom (or maybe liberty) carries the same weight in the West as harmony in the East. To view Chinese society through "freedom" prism is as logical as to view American through "harmony". Incidentally societies which place greater emphasis on harmony (China, Vietnam, Japan etc) had so far better results during CV19 crisis than the West.
 

Joey Shabadoo

My pronouns are "He", "Him" and "buggerlugs"
Did you bother to read the article?
How many thousands were murdered by the state - in one day?


Amazing that people are looking at a totalitarian dictator state that executes people (and keeps the numbers a state secret), runs concentration camps for ethnic minorities and murders protestors then saying "Aw but what about us, we're just as bad man".
 
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