China - what’s to be done?

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
After years of kow- towing to China, the west is finally waking-up to the fact that it’s been well and truly mugged. Rather than moving towards a more open and democratic state it’s clearly hurtling in the opposite direction.

The west who have long parked issues of human rights abuses from the days of Tibet (and probably before) to the Uigars and now HK, the railroading of patent and intellectual property rights, the lack of a level playing field for international business and investment, claims over Taiwan, and military land-grabs in thePacific ocean and the stealthy purchase and control if supply of key global raw-materials for the high-tech world -are finally waking-up and growing a pair....(can we still say that?).

China will soon eclipse the USA as the #1 world super-power with no sign of changing it’s modus operandi.
Little Britain needs a friend....

So, what’s to be done?
 
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Buy more phones? More car parts? More white goods? More bike frames? More Rohan beanies?
Very preferentially competitive, that there business environment.
 

MichaelW2

Veteran
Maybe countries that have a broadly similar culture of democracy and freedom could band together and trade with each other preferentially, thus reducing the need to outsource cheap labour and pollution to China. I wonder if this might provide some herd protection and even be a balance to the other two super powers. Imagine that.
Or we could stand proud and independent as a global trading giant by bending over and letting the USA and China fight for who gets the good end.
 
OP
Fab Foodie

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Maybe countries that have a broadly similar culture of democracy and freedom could band together and trade with each other preferentially, thus reducing the need to outsource cheap labour and pollution to China. I wonder if this might provide some herd protection and even be a balance to the other two super powers. Imagine that.
...dreamer....
 

wafter

Über Member
Location
Oxford
Tbh I don't think there's a lot that can be done by the UK alone; over decades the Chinese have done an excellent job of undermining their Western "competitors" (enemies) and I think they've got it pretty much sewn up. Through our greed (the US and UK predominently) we now have an economy that's massively reliant on Chinese goods; from dirt-cheap consumer electrical products to medicines and other essentials. We've allowed China so much market share that they now have an enormous control over cost and supply of many products. On top of that I believe a lot of both public and private British assets have been bought up by the Chinese..

Our economy and general quality of life will collapse if people have to start buying products priced to reflect the cost of domestic / developed world labour. Like so many other situations our governments have repeated kicked the China can down the road to suit their own hunger for unsustainable economic growth; ignoring at best moral issues on China's policies and at worst the looming spectre of their eventual world domination. As we've seen with Hong Kong, China will keep pushing and sooner or later a line will have to be drawn in the sand; I guess beginning with tariffs on imported Chinese goods, then trade embargos which will hurt our economy and further weaken our position.

It'll take a lot to wean our citizens off the disgusting levels of disposible consumption the establishment has been pushing for decades to maintain economic growth and serve their own agendas.. and regardless of consumer mindset the practicalities of cheap, disposible rubbish that's only built to last a couple of years will demand the purchase of more expensive replacements from alternative sources once the cheap tat has stopped coming in from China and all the existing stuff has dropped to bits.

The Trump-led US has already ventured down this route to economic conflict with China; although I think a lot of this is driven by showboating for his ego rather than much strategic awareness. Of course Russia are in bed with China and it also appears that they've been doing a lot to undermine the West's hegemony; such as their attempts to influence the US elections through manipulation of voter sentiment on the net.

I think it's inevitable that the US will end up in open conflict with China; it's the only context that the diminishing US has a chance of dominance given that the Chinese have been eating away at them economically from the inside for many years. I suspect the storybook will play out like Iraq; the US and us, their lapdog once more will seize on one of China's transgressions against a weaker opponent / oppressed minority to morally justify an intervention.

HK could well be the flashpoint depending on how it escalates as it has many of the necessary ingredients; an ex-British colony so citizens, ties and the remnants of "democracy" still exist making the public sell easier. It's away from the Chinese mainland so allows a convenient stepping stone in the form of a proxy war that avoids (initially at least) a full-blown direct attack on the Chinese mainland. I suspect Russia will eventually become involved, but China will be the key driver as they're the economic powerhouse.

The US wants (needs) war with China, we can give that to them by allowing our relationship with HK to be used as the justification. I doubt we'll get any help from Europe since we've stuck two fingers up at them through Brexit. In addition many on the mainland are in less precarious economic positions than us so less incentive to enage China- stronger economies that rely far less on consumption fed by imported rubbish, have stronger manufacturing and a lesser reliance on non-essential service industries.

EDIT: Lots of posturing in the south China sea, too..

As I've said before the Covid situation is interesting, given how the Chinese have been inherntly well-equipped to deal with it (for various socio-political and potentially physiological reasons) while it's hammering the US and UK due to the differences these countries have with the Chinese in these areas. It appears to have been a very convenient affliction for the Chinese.

So yeah, not that I relish the prospect in the slightest but war is the only likely outcome IMO as ideologically we're fundamentally incompatible with the Chinese and if we don't act soon before they consolidate they total economic control over us we'll simply be assymilated eventually.
 
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Joey Shabadoo

My pronouns are "He", "Him" and "buggerlugs"
Now the building of two carriers and acquiring stealthy strike bombers fir them makes sense. Also note HMS QE is due to exercise in Pacific with US Fleet later this year.
 
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