BoJo's Green Revolution

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Poshshire
Ooohhh, actions have consequences. Over half the worlds cobalt comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo, and the lucky workers earn pittance, and the unlucky ones are children in a situation more or less akin to slavery. How hard will they get screwed over to meet Boris' target?

It ain't gonna happen. This idea that lCE cars will be replaced one for one by electric ones and life will then carry one pretty much as normal is utter bunkum for so many reasons. The sooner the government and, more importantly, the public realise that the era of unfettered private car ownership is coming to an end, then the quicker everyone can adapt and move on, and the less painful it will be all round.
 

MrGrumpy

Huge Member
Location
Fly Fifer
It’s all bollocks , where I live there is no high street. There are supermarkets that’s all. Every thing else is a drive away or Bus/Train. We all have this utopian dream of car free world, it’s fantasy . Electric cars is not the whole answer, the internet and high rents on the high street has killed the small shops etc. All that’s left is the big out of town retail parks ! When Covid does one , they will be once again rammed to the rafters .
 

stephec

Legendary Member
Location
Bolton
It depends how you drive them I think. Mine was a company car, I didn't give a stuff about the eco side, the fuel was expensed so I just booted the arse out of it for a year. I was always impressed that if you floored it at 70mph, the electric motors kicked in and you got a noticeable surge. (I was younger and fecklesser, please forgive me)

I read that a lot of Mitsubishi Evo hybrid company cars were handed back at the end of the lease with the charging cable still in the sealed plastic bag. Company car drivers don't care.
On the last paragraph there, I was speaking to a guy who had a Toyota hybrid as a company car a while back, he said, 'it goes well in petrol mode so I just leave it in that all the time.'
 

stowie

Legendary Member
Let's say the whole nation moved to Hybrid cars, based on current car usage does anybody know what the actual effect on pollution (local and National)?
What are the like for like stats on a fossil fuel hybrid versus a Pure fossil fuel or pure electric. Am not convinced of the real-world benefits of hybrid technology...it seems the worst of both worlds....
With full electric cars, the effect on local pollution is obvious but I think hybrid technology is far more nuanced. It should be beneficial for key local pollutants such as NOx in urban areas. If traffic flow is slow / stop-start and individual journeys relatively short then the hybrid technology should reduce the time the combustion engine is on and therefore reduce pollution. But there are a lot of factors. For a start there is plug-in and "self charging" variants. Plug-in should be most effective, with "self charging" the combustion engine is working to charge the batteries so it is just kind of moving the pollution around. Whether self-charging reduces local pollution overall is a really complex question dependent on the car, environment it is driven in, efficiencies of charging etc.

To mirror what has been said many times on this thread....

Taking London as an example. Only a third of private car journeys in London are over 5km. A full 14% are under 1km! And this is London which has public transport and driving by car is generally very unpleasant. Not only is this all a bit mad, but for around half a century transport planning has been such that this has been encouraged whilst making alternatives less accessible. Change is needed. Sure electric cars are generally better for local pollution (and global pollution) than ICE. But the best solution is for most people not to use their car for short journeys that should be made by other means.
 

Mr Celine

Discordian
Let's say the whole nation moved to Hybrid cars, based on current car usage does anybody know what the actual effect on pollution (local and National)?
What are the like for like stats on a fossil fuel hybrid versus a Pure fossil fuel or pure electric. Am not convinced of the real-world benefits of hybrid technology...it seems the worst of both worlds....
My employer suddenly introduced pool cars as a 'green' initiative. They are all Toyota Yaris hybrids and at under 50 MPG are less economicall than either of the Celine mobiles.

I should add for completeness that when using one's own car and claiming expenses there was an incentive to drive economically. The pool cars are universally hated and mercilessly thrashed.
 

McWobble

Euthermic
Location
Minkowski Space
Ooohhh, actions have consequences. Over half the worlds cobalt comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo, and the lucky workers earn pittance, and the unlucky ones are children in a situation more or less akin to slavery. How hard will they get screwed over to meet Boris' target?

It ain't gonna happen. This idea that lCE cars will be replaced one for one by electric ones and life will then carry one pretty much as normal is utter bunkum for so many reasons. The sooner the government and, more importantly, the public realise that the era of unfettered private car ownership is coming to an end, then the quicker everyone can adapt and move on, and the less painful it will be all round.
You're quite right that cobalt production comes at a cost to many who work to produce it. There has been a considerable push to reduce the amount of cobalt in lithium-ion batteries. It's increasingly being replaced by nickel and manganese, which have the advantage of being cheaper and safer. But many materials are just as problematic: lithium production in Bolivia has forced native populations of their land through water shortages. The real solution is to change the large mining corporations' behaviour through legislation and public pressure. It's not unreasonable that we should pay a little more in order to ensure that those Third World workers get to work in a safe environment and earn a decent wage.
 

slowmotion

Quite dreadful
Location
lost somewhere
I think there's talk of opening up lithium mining in Cornwall. If so, it would be really good news for the local economy. Lord knows, there have been enough false mining dawns down there.

https://www.cornishlithium.com/

EDIT: Sorry! You already know that from Fabbers. Whoops.
 
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Yellow Fang

Legendary Member
Location
Reading
I was listening on the news about all this on the news last night. It was music to my ears. Not just electric cars, but all the ambitions for rolling out heat pumps, offshore wind, nuclear, and hydrogen. Just hope BoJo is serious. In the past the government has started lots of green initiatives and then slammed the brakes on. TBF, I give New Labour and the Lib Dems credit for pushing through the green initiatives and I blame the Tories for slamming the brakes on. Given that, you do have to adapt your approach if a green initiative is not working properly, and plenty weren't.
 

Landsurfer

Über Member
Personal transport will be only for the wealthy ... The rest of us will be forced into public transport that does not go to our place of work and extends our working day by up to 50% .... what a great advance for society.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
Personal transport will be only for the wealthy ... The rest of us will be forced into public transport that does not go to our place of work and extends our working day by up to 50% .... what a great advance for society.
Yeah, welcome to reality for the overwhelming majority of those of us who work in London.
 
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It hasn't been thought through properly .
It all sounds very good but hybrid vehicles should still be made .
It all sounds very good at the moment not having to pay road tax on an electric vehicle but this will soon have to alter as IC vehicles gradually tail off . Also there will be a loss of income from fuel duty for a similar reason .
What about commercial vehicles? I don't think there will be a sudden rush to convert them for a while .
What about the vehicles that come along to dig up your road? The compressor which powers the drills ?
How will all of these vehicles get charged? There will have to be an increase in generating capacity . You won't be able to rely on green energy on foggy days and wind turbines don't operate when the wind is above a certain speed .
Whilst they have been claiming that they have been closing down coal fired power stations, they have kept it quiet that they have been building local diesel powered ones .
Joe Biden announced in one state that the oil industry is finished! What a numpty ! We are so reliant on the chemicals that come from it .
If the oil companies incomes are reduced by being unable to sell some of their products then they will be forced to raise the prices of other products to compensate .
Rant over .
 
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